The following is a transcript of our podcast conversation with Sarah Wilkins and Maryam Sharifzadeh. You can listen to the full episode on Spotify or Apple Podcasts.
Sarah Wilkins
Hello, and welcome to Humans Beyond Resources, an HR podcast by Reverb, where we cover topics from culture to compliance. Reverb believes that every decision a leader makes reverberates throughout the organization, from hiring your first employee to training your entire workforce. We believe in building healthy, inclusive cultures that engage your team. I’m your host, Sarah Wilkins. Thank you to our Humans Beyond Resources podcast sponsors, Parker Smith and Fink, A .H .T. and Joshua Brunningham of Kearney Baidley and Spelman. Today I’m speaking with Mariam Sharifzadeh, founder of ZAS, Zen as a Service. Mariam is a fellow certified B Corp, so we’re very excited to get to speak to her today. Mariam is a workplace well -being expert that has been able to see how the principles of yoga can lead to a healthy work environment. I’m really excited to talk about well -being at work and how employers can craft programs and reduce stress and burnout for our teams. Welcome Maryam.
Maryam Sharifzadeh
Thank you, Sarah. It’s an honor to be here.
Sarah Wilkins
That’s great. Thanks so much. First, I dive in by wanting to hear a little bit more about you and your company. Will you share a little bit more?
Maryam Sharifzadeh
Yeah. Yes. ZaaS Zen as a service offers services and strategy. So our wellness services includes yoga, meditation, fitness classes, also health and wellness workshops. This is a little bit of everything wellbeing. So it helps HR leaders and people teams really streamline their efforts in terms of offering classes and services, and it helps reduce the cost. So you don’t have a bajillion vendors doing a bajillion things. Our strategy is definitely helpful in terms of gathering qualitative and quantitative feedback from employees, And what it really does, it helps us iron out any choke points that we have in terms of implementation, or maybe changing in practices and services, and this aids in long -term success for our clients.
Sarah Wilkins
I love hearing about your various services, and I think that’s so helpful, because as small teams, you know, it may be hard to find various providers and then manage all of them. And then, like you said, the bringing down the cost in kind of one single solution is nice. Yeah. So before we dive into, you know, wellness, let’s talk a little bit more about B Corps and, you know, you’re a B Corp, we’re a B Corp. So I wanted to ask you, why was becoming a B Corp important to you?
Maryam Sharifzadeh
Well, you know, I think it makes sense to backtrack a little bit. you know, before I started my business, I was a yoga instructor. And all the people coming into my yoga class were all coming in for the same reasons. They were stressed from work. You know, they would come and just like crawl onto their mat. And whether it was like an interpersonal dynamic that was stressing them out or maybe they were just like working really long hours, they were all coming in for the same reason. And so I just had the opportunity to kind of think as I was teaching, I was like, it makes sense to bring yoga to the workplace. And that’s essentially when I ended up founding Office Yoga, you know, which was back in 2011, almost, you know, over 10 years ago. And I was able to bring yoga into the workplace thinking, hey, you know, we can actually make it easier for people. They’re not as stressed and, you know, kind of help this like really hard, challenging work environment. Just be a little bit more peaceful and fun. And then, yeah. So I was in this world of, you know, on my own, I really felt like my own soldier, just like going out there and trying to bring, you know, ethics and harmony and like goodwill into the workplace. My friend introduced me to B Corp, you know, I didn’t know what it was. She just kind of gave me a magazine when I was at her house and I was flipping through it and I was like, Oh, this is interesting. You know, didn’t think too much of it, but like about a year later I went to an event and that’s when I realized I found my people. You know, I was like, these are my people. They’re not just, you know, they’re bringing the actual practices, like these ethical yoga principles that I’ve always thought would be really beneficial in the workplace, in the corporate world. They were doing it. They were living it. They were moving forward and pushing the needle forward. And I just, I knew that’s where I wanted to be. So that is, you know, why I essentially went through the really like rigorous process of becoming a B Corp. It’s not easy at all, but it was so worth it to me, you know, so worth it to be with other people that are inspiring and they coming up with new ideas just to make work better, you know, to make business better.
Sarah Wilkins
Yeah, absolutely. I love that story and finding your people and, you know, and that alignment that you have, right. It’s so important. And yeah, it is a, it is a process. It took us over a year, but it was good, you know, to go through the process and make sure that what we were saying, we were doing and we were documenting it and being able to show that accountability and transparency to those process.
Maryam Sharifzadeh
I think it took me 14 months my first time because I had to change so many of the practices as I was going through. So it was just so hard. You know, I remember having to collect I was making my carbon footprint spreadsheet. And I had to go and like track all the airlines I flew so they can look at like the gas, you know, the thing. And then at the time, I had 26 yoga teachers around the country. So I reach out to them and like ask them for their carbon footprint and like what airlines they traveled for work and what cars that they have and how much mileage they had for the year. And to get a yoga teacher to just fill out their timesheet is already really hard. So imagine asking them for like their car mileage or a carbon footprint spreadsheet. It was It was like pulling teeth, but, you know, we got it. So it was, it was very much a memorable process.
Sarah Wilkins
Absolutely. So you’ve been probably through the recertification process at least once.
Maryam Sharifzadeh
I just recertified this year. Okay. Yeah.
Sarah Wilkins
How was that?
Maryam Sharifzadeh
It was challenging in a different way because since then I, I upbranded office yoga to Zest Zen as a service. And so I, I essentially have two different businesses, although Zass is the umbrella business and office yoga is a part of that going through the recertification process was challenging because I had to certify both companies.
Sarah Wilkins
Yeah.
Maryam Sharifzadeh
So they were, they had a lot of questions of like, what’s this other business and are they the same? Are they, and how are they different? So I had to send a lot of org charts for, for the two. And so it was just challenging in that respect, but luckily I had been through it before. So I had a lot of the processes in place and as you know, the they’re always changing their standards. So Recertifying you’re still upgrading your processes. There’s no, you know, we never like make it We’re never like yeah, we made it. It’s just it’s the journey though. Yeah
Sarah Wilkins
Constant improvement, right and new things to consider and best practices to be following So we just got certified the first time last year And so we’re already like thinking ahead to make sure we’re prepared for recertification and, you know, a couple of years.
Maryam Sharifzadeh
So no, it’s important. I think it’s easier that way.
Sarah Wilkins
Yeah.
Maryam Sharifzadeh
Like cleaning your house a little bit every day.
Sarah Wilkins
Yeah, exactly. Not all at one time, which I’m guilty of. You shared why it was important to you. And obviously it’s important to Reverb, but why, why do you think other businesses should consider becoming B -Corps?
Maryam Sharifzadeh
That’s a, that’s a good question. Why should other companies consider becoming a B Corp? I could speak for entrepreneurs and business leaders. We usually have a business idea because we think we can make the world or our community a better place. Like that’s why we start a business. That’s why we create the product or sell the service is because we know that we can enhance, you know, either a process that’s in place or an existing product. you know, if you’re a vegan chef, you know, you want to open up a restaurant because you know, you know, it’s one is better for the people to eat vegan food. It’s better for their bodies, but it’s also just better for the planet. You know, it’s more sustainable. So you open a restaurant because you know, it does is does good. You’re not doing it for the money, right? And same if you if you sell widgets, you know, you’re usually creating a widget to make a process more efficient, or, you know, something better. That’s why you create that widget. And that’s why it sells is because it’s doing something good. And usually money is a by -product of an already good product or service. And I think B Corp is really good at standing in that value system of we’re doing good for the planet. We’re doing good for the community and money is a by -product of what we do. You know, it’s not the reason we do the thing. And I think a lot of businesses are kind of trapped in that, you know, the, just the financial goals and like growing for growth sake. But I do know that a lot of leaders and entrepreneurs start their businesses with that value system in place. And so, you know, if you’re an entrepreneur and you have those strong ethics and that value system, becoming a B Corp brings you into that community of like -minded people. You know, they’re really inspiring and I just, I just connected with a company that is putting a revenue cap on their business so that they don’t just grow for growth sake, but once they hit the revenue cap, they’re sustainable. They have the finances that they need. They can focus their attention on the quality of their service and their employee wellbeing. You know, how amazing is that, that there’s a company that has a revenue cap unheard of, you know, like next goal, you know, we hit our target in Q1, let’s do better in Q2 or, you know, the next year. So I think just seeing people that think differently and act differently and seeing it be successful. is really inspiring. And that is a, I think that alone is a great reason to become a B Corp.
Sarah Wilkins
Yeah, absolutely. That kind of double bottom line, right? Not just the financial, but the impact on, you know, people, community, all of that. So it’s, if you’re, if you’re into that, that’s such an important way to show it and then be a part of a group that is thinking so differently, maybe. It’s very inspiring. I mean, you’ve already mentioned a couple, like just being a part of the community. Any more examples of how the B Corp community has supported you and your business? Yeah, I’ve had, um, had an opportunity to work with a lot
Maryam Sharifzadeh
of B Corps, and I feel very grateful for that. I am a, I personally am a female minority founder, which is very rare. I found out only 7 .4 % of businesses are female owned and minority owned, which is, I was surprised. So I feel very grateful to be in that small group. Um, and a lot of B Corps are very thoughtful and mindful about their partnerships and their vendor partners. Um, and a lot of them are DEI focused too. So. You know, being able to just have the opportunity to work with people through wherever they are in their wellness journey has been very, very valuable to me. And it’s, it’s nice to, when I’m working with other B Corps, I feel like I’m a part of the company. You know, and not just like a glorified lemonade stand outside the front door, but I’m actually a part of them and you know, every interaction is just so, it feels like I’m talking to a friend or someone I’ve known for a long time. So I think I’ve just benefited in sort of the human relationship aspect of the business. I feel like things are less transactional and more relational and it makes me want to show up for them and it makes me want to do better. And you know, there’s no stress. You know, I’m, I’m talking to people that I care about and that care about me. And I think that’s, that’s priceless in my opinion.
Sarah Wilkins
Anything else you want to share about, you know, B Corp in particular?
Maryam Sharifzadeh
Um, you know, I’m looking forward to the B Corp conference this year, the champions retreat in Vancouver. Um, I’ll actually be part of the, one of the main stage speakers talking on, you know, the benefits of wellbeing, taking the woo out of wellness. So, you know, people can really see the ROI and the benefits of having a wellness program for their company. And I’m just happy that B Corp is actually putting that on the main stage. Like they’re really talking about employee health and why that’s important. That’s great.
Sarah Wilkins
Um, I love to ask about kind of your definition of wellness and wellbeing, because I think it can be varied across individual, right? And so as you, you did talk about, you know, some various different things that you provide, but how do you define, you know, wellness and well -being?
Maryam Sharifzadeh
I feel like this is a trick question. Trying to define well -being is like trying to define love. You know, how do you know when you’re in love? How do you know and measure your love for someone else? You can ask a hundred different people and get a hundred different responses. And what well -being means to me is going to be different than what well -being means to you and for the listeners. So that’s why it’s so hard to define, right? So well -being could be having a healthy diet and exercising regularly. You know, it could be having a good night’s sleep or financial security, you know, for someone else it might be being able to take their dog out on a walk in the middle of the day, you know, and what well -being means for us in this moment is gonna change, you know, five months from now, a year from now, five years from now. So our, what we each individually need for wellbeing is also changing, which is, I think what makes wellbeing so challenging for organizations and also why wellbeing
Maryam Sharifzadeh
strategy is so important. So we don’t end up wasting a lot of time and resources and trying to figure out what our teams need.
Sarah Wilkins
Yeah. I love how you pointed that out because it is very individual, right. On what wellbeing is for each of us. And, and there’s so many aspects of wellbeing, like you said, you know, health, financial, um, you know, relationships, like all these various things go into what wellbeing is. And then, like you said, the strategy. So can you talk a little bit more about the strategy side of things and how you help companies kind of decide, um, What to go after what to do, right? Cause again, I think every day I’m getting, you know, like, Oh, here’s a program that you can run for wellness or here’s a platform or here’s a this, but you may miss
Maryam Sharifzadeh
the mark, right? Yeah. Yeah. I think strategy is going to be a big trend. It’s a challenge right now and it’s a trend in wellness. What I see with my clients and also just prospective clients, they have a lot of different vendors doing a lot of different things. So they might have an onsite office yoga teacher, and then they have an EAP program and a meditation app and a burnout and resilience coach, you know, and none of these vendors are talking to each other and none of the communication is consistent or streamlined for the people leaders or the HR teams. You know, they’re having a lot of trouble getting all the information out in a succinct way. That’s one big thing that I’ve been able to help my clients with in the last two years. We meet once a month and we really take in the utilization rates, we take employee feedback, we listen to what they’re saying and we’re able to make changes in the moment before the issue gets too big, right? That’s what I really appreciate. I think monthly is a good timeline to meet with people. So you’re not letting something go too long without addressing it, but you’re also able to stay ahead of any issues that may be coming up.
Sarah Wilkins
Going into some more specifics, I think one thing we hear a lot as, you know, a people leader or, you know, fractional people leader with the organizations that we support is, you know, around burnout, stress, balance, you know, all of those things. How can business leaders and individuals focus on wellness to help reduce these things?
Maryam Sharifzadeh
That’s, that’s the key question, right? Yeah, we can look at this. Let’s look at this from two perspectives, the business leaders perspective and the employee, the individual’s perspective. So from the business leader’s perspective, we’ll start there. Burnout and stress really comes from a rise and grind culture, a rise and grind mentality. And this can look two different ways. One, companies tend to oversell their services or product to, you know, quote, unquote, change the world. You know, they really, really hype their employees up during onboarding. They sell their company and their services as an identity for their employees to wear as a badge of honor. They fill them with swag, t -shirts, hats, clothes, branding everywhere. And that creates a lot of excitement for the employees. They’re wearing it as a badge of honor. They’re proud to work there. But that overexcitement leads to an over -identification, which leads to overworking yourself, which eventually leads to burnout very fast. And so that’s one way. I see this a lot in San Francisco is that companies end up burning out employees really fast. The other way that companies do this is just an old school mentality of work hard, play hard in which you’re burning the candle at both ends. People that are working remote right now or maybe hybrid, meetings are starting as soon as seven in the morning and then they’re still expected to work late at night or up until like the regular work day. And so really a lot of these burnout and stress issues can be prevented through policy and wellness strategy. That’s from the company’s perspective. I think, you know, leaders can really do something on that front. In terms of the individuals, you know, when we are feeling stress or we’re feeling burned out, honestly, it’s simple. Just physical exercise can really do a lot for removing like physiological stress in the body. And also meditation practices can do that too. I’m not just saying this because that’s my background, but it’s the same old, like doctor prescribes, diet and exercise. But I want to give a different perspective on this. So the way that, you know, right now, if you don’t have any sort of physical exercise or you don’t have a mindfulness practice, your tolerance for stress is, you know, is limited. But through exercise and meditation, you can actually increase your stress threshold. so you can actually tolerate more stress without getting triggered as easily. So just in the way, like a marathon runner or any marathon athlete, you know, if you’re going to swim across an ocean or run a hundred miles, you train your body to be able to do so. And through meditation and breath work, you can actually train your stress response so that you can hold a little bit more stress. That’s one powerful tool that I’ve actually found a lot with my employees to use some simple breathing meditation techniques where they just don’t respond as fast, or the little things will sort of roll off their shoulders a lot easier.
Sarah Wilkins
The things you pointed out from the client perspective, I see that with a lot of people I know, and they may start a meeting at seven, but then they’re still like on their computer at six because they’re working with East Coast, but then they’re on the West Coast, and then there’s just a blurred definition of what the workday looks like, right?
Maryam Sharifzadeh
Yeah, yeah, it’s a little blurry. And again, through wellness policy and strategy, a lot of these things can be prevented.
Sarah Wilkins
Yeah, yeah. I mean, I have the privilege of being able to just block my calendar where I don’t take meetings before nine o ‘clock. And I kind of stop them at 430 for my own ability to stay balanced and kind of make sure I’m starting my day in a good way and ending my day in a good way. But I know not everyone has that, you know, capability or, you know, privilege to do so.
Maryam Sharifzadeh
Yeah, and what’s nice is that leadership allows you to do that, you know, they’re not overwriting your blocked calendar. So I think that’s a really important key.
Sarah Wilkins
Yeah. You talked about some challenges already kind of with strategy or, you know, programs, but yeah, anything else kind of on the common challenges and themes that you’re seeing in employee wellness programs?
Maryam Sharifzadeh
The other challenge and theme that I believe that we’ll see or a trend that I think we’ll see in 2024 is embodied leadership, like leadership, really embodying the wellness initiatives and bringing that forward. So that is, I think the biggest issue I run into aside from, you know, simple communications and lack of strategy is actual leadership approval for these wellness programs. So they’ll bring me in or they’ll bring other vendors in and they’ll sort of check a box or put a band -aid over some toxic work culture and say, look, you know, we have yoga classes now, we have meditation, but we’re not gonna give you time to actually do them. Or we’re gonna roll our eyes at you if you actually tried to take time out during the day to go do these. So unfortunately, there’s approval to some degree allowing people to come in, but there isn’t the high leadership approval from the C -suite. And I think that needs to be demonstrated via practice. Actually, in November, I taught a class on site. I love this story. I taught a class on site in November for one of my clients, and David, who’s the director of HR, showed up. David’s done yoga a few times. By no means is he a regular practitioner, but he comes and he’s practicing with everyone. About halfway through class, I have everybody balancing on one foot in tree pose. I just made some offhanded joke like, focus, everyone. And the boss is here and he looks at me and he’s like, I can barely hold this pose myself. You know, it falls over and everyone just starts laughing and everyone falls over. And it felt like the room just got bigger. You know, it felt like we weren’t at work anymore. And so what David did by actually showing up to that class was he made himself human. You know, he made himself, he showed everybody that wellbeing is important to him and for them, right? He just demonstrated it through his behavior and coming up. He’s not immune to stress. He’s not immune to tight hamstrings, you know, and he was willing to be vulnerable and have the courage to show up and not be good at something. So I think a big trend for, you know, really bringing culture, a well -being into the culture of work is really having that leadership buy -in, you know, have the courage to show up to a class and practice with people, You know, give props or give kudos to your employees for actually attending classes, give them the time and their schedule to be able to participate, you know, may be proud of them for taking care of themselves so that they can take care of the company.
Sarah Wilkins
Yeah, I think that’s so important, you know, not just in wellness, but across everything right. And if a leader is no not prioritizing it or not showing that it’s important or scheduling meetings over times where you know there are things being offered like that signal that doesn’t send the signal that like it’s something that people should you know prioritize or focus on but by doing it um and going for it and it doesn’t always have to be you know showing up
Maryam Sharifzadeh
for a wellness activity it can you know maybe you have a policy of of zoom free fridays or you know no meeting Wednesdays, but don’t send a meeting for your employees to meet you on Wednesday when you have no meeting Wednesdays. You have to practice outreach. So that’s a big issue and that’s what I mean by embodying that leadership or embodying the well -being. I think that’s something that will really change the game in terms of workplace wellness and employee health.
Sarah Wilkins
Yeah, absolutely. Talked about this, yeah, what companies can do to foster a culture that supports well -being, right, with leadership embodying it, but what other things have you seen or would you recommend?
Maryam Sharifzadeh
I would recommend, you know, really asking employees and surveying what people want and need and talking to a professional or an expert about it, because the world of workplace wellness is so young. You know, it’s been around for about 15 -20 years, and it feels like these past 15 -20 years, we’ve been finding all of these different workplace wellness modalities, you know, and while some person wants no meeting Wednesdays, another person wants to work from home, someone else wants yoga classes, you know, there’s no direct pathway for wellness. So I think we’re at a point, especially with so many people having done this for so long, myself included, we know what works and we know what doesn’t, we know what questions to ask, and we know how to move forward with the information that we have and how to analyze the data so that not really wasting resources or wasting time and money to be able to get a wellness program together by just guessing. You know I think really figuring out how to leverage the tools that are out there and the people with the expertise will really be greatly beneficial.
Sarah Wilkins
You know surveying or you know asking people right across the benefits and the wellness benefits that you provide I think is so important back to the fact that you can’t define wellness for someone. They kind of define what that means for them. And so I think that’s important to get
Maryam Sharifzadeh
their feedback. Yeah. And it also changes. Remember what it changes for that one individual is going to be different a year from now, which is what makes it tricky. So constant communication and check -in and serving and, you know, without being obnoxious about it, but just being really mindful, right. Being compassionate and knowing when someone needs some support and just knowing you’re there, I think just speaks volumes for employees. Any closing thoughts you’d like to share? Yeah, if you are running a wellness program or thinking about running a wellness program or creating one, have fun with it. Please, please have fun with it. The last thing you want to stress about is wellness. So have a good time putting the program together. There needs to be a genuine desire to want this to be successful. So, you know, really leverage the resources you have. Zass has a lot of free tools. We have a lot of free resources that you can use and don’t be afraid to reach out if you need support. I’m always happy to talk whether it’s for service or strategy or just to bounce some ideas. I’m happy to chat, especially for our B Corp community. Thank you. Thank you so much.
Sarah Wilkins
Thank you for listening to this episode of Humans Beyond Resources. Visit rewarepeople .com to find free resources, subscribe to our newsletter, and connect with our team. If you haven’t already, subscribe to stay up to date on all of our upcoming episodes. We look forward to having you as part of our community. Thank you again to our podcast sponsors. Parker Smith & Feek is a nationally recognized, privately held brokerage firm. They offer a full range of services, including employee benefits, commercial and personal insurance, and everything in between. The depth and breadth of their staff experience sets them apart as they provide stellar service and imaginative solutions for all clients. AHT Insurance is an insurance, brokerage, and consulting firm offering property and casualty, employee benefits, retirement, private client, and international services for clients throughout the United States and 42 other countries. Supporting numerous industries and boasting national recognition in the technology, manufacturing, government contracting, and nonprofit practice areas, AHT offers clients highly customized solutions to identify and help mitigate risks they may face. Joshua Brittingham of Kearney Bailey Spelman is a seasoned employment lawyer and he works with entrepreneurs and business leaders, especially in construction, hospitality, and financial services to help them handle sticky employee situations so they can thrive in a complex world. Joshua is also a professional speaker, panelist, and teacher on the topic of all things employment law.
